My Very First SEO Client Tells Me How Sh*T My Communication Was (And More Feedback)

We all make mistakes – I’m definitely no stranger to making mistakes in both my personal and professional life.

In this episode of MSSA, I sit down with my very first SEO consulting client – Lilac Zhang, a wedding stylist in Sydney. I won’t spoil how we met as Lilac tells it in great detail in the podcast but suffice to say, my first impression did not meet the expectation that my online presence had conjured.

But in all seriousness, this was a humbling chat because this is why I toil everyday in SEO as a service. It is to help my clients achieve their financial goals so that they can obtain the lifestyle they desire through their hard work. And SEO should do exactly that for a small business – help them gain visibility, get traffic, and achieve conversions.

Find out how I f*cked up and how I managed to win Lilac’s trust in the 14-months that I have been working on her campaign.

Also, with jumplinks so that you can skip to sections via YouTube.

Prefer to tune in via your favourite podcast app? I’ve got you covered.

Full Transcript

DANIEL: Welcome to the show, Lilac.

LILAC: Thanks so much, Dan. I’m so happy to be here.

DANIEL: So, so happy. You and I, we go back a few years.


DANIEL: I think we just established it was only three years. But I guess for full disclosure you are slash were an SEO client of mine, I believe the very first, but before that…

LILAC: For me.

DANIEL: But before that, because I was a wedding photographer, we ran in the same circle.

LILAC: Right. That’s essentially how we met in the first [inaudible 0:02:53.8].

DANIEL: So for those of us who don’t know you, tell us who you are and what is it that you do?

LILAC: My name is Lilac Zhang and I’m the founder and creative director of Upside Down Events. So Upside Down Events is a bespoke wedding styling and planning business that’s based in Sydney, and we do weddings and events for clients who want to be creative and one of a kind.

DANIEL: I see. And what were you doing before that?

LILAC: Ooh, that feels like a lifetime ago. I was in a corporate job, aerospace to be specific, as a program manager for that seven years.

DANIEL: Wow. And what made you want to get into event planning , and styling and weddings and events in general?

LILAC: Money, of course.

DANIEL: Hey, I love money.

LILAC: No. You know, I’m just kidding.

DANIE: But not really.

LILAC: But not really. We all wanted this to work and make money, and pay bills, you know, essentially, we’re all business owners. But honestly, at the time, I guess growing up I always feel like I wanted to do something creative.:

Never thought I’m going to own a business and be an entrepreneur, but I always feel like I want to do something with arts and culture because that’s where I’m drawn to the world. I think it all started towards the end of my corporate career. I was thinking just kind of a change of pace. And one of my best girlfriends was planning to have her wedding, and three months before her wedding she gave me a call and she said, “Hey, I’m having my wedding in Thailand in three months, and I’m clueless. Can you help me out?” And I took that on as a challenge because I thought, you know, I’ve been always really good at organizing, getting people together, and being creative and designing things, and why don’t I give it a go. And the wedding turned out to be great, everyone loved it, and I thought, “Okay, this might be my calling.”

DANIEL: And at this stage, did you have any experience in planning this kind of stuff or you just made it up as you went along?

LILAC: Well, I had experience planning birthday parties, you know, drinks and stuff, if that counts. But real events, no.


LILAC: Zero.

DANIEL: Right. And so what was the learning curve like for this first destination wedding, essentially?

LILAC: Yeah. I think I didn’t anticipate how much work and then how big the learning curve was the time because even at this stage in my career, which are three years in Upside Down Events, still destination wedding is a big one. It takes a lot more effort, time planning, communication, than the local wedding. And I think at that time, I didn’t know anything. I just decided to go for it.


LILAC: Yeah. And I feel like I definitely learned a lot. I started the hard way and everything just seem to be a bit easy now.

DANIEL: You jumped at the deep end.

 LILAC: Exactly.

 DANIEL: Yeah, okay. Ignorance is bliss.

LILAC: Absolutely. Absolutely.

DANIEL: Okay. What was your biggest takeaway from that?

LILAC: I think my biggest takeaway was I really enjoy planning for a very unconventional wedding, like having been to many events, weddings and parties prior to my very first wedding. I felt like, to be honest, I never really enjoyed most of the weddings I’ve been to. I feel like they’re more like a formality and people just gather together, and just have, you know, food and drinks and be there to witness a show, if that makes sense.


LILAC: Especially in our Asian culture, I feel like most of the time people put on a show.

DANIEL: Yes. It’s very structured. There’s a timeline, yeah.

 LILAC: Very specific timeline.

DANIEL: And then you get to exit the by a certain stage.

LILAC: Exactly, yeah. Otherwise, it’s bad luck.

DANIEL: Oh, really?

LILAC: Apparently so.

DANIEL: Or you just have to pay extra fees. That’s bad luck.

LILAC: That will work, too. Exactly. Yeah, so at the time I felt like I really, truly enjoyed that particular wedding as the planner, stylist, as well as, the guests. The couple who asked you – one of my best friends, they were a very adventurous couple. They were rock climbers. They wanted to do adventure things. We had a yoga workshop on the wedding day.


LILAC: The wedding is on the beach. It was under a cliff. There was no real formality apart from a 15-minute ceremony, and she, you know, trusting me and let me do whatever I feel like would work and, you know, fit in their aesthetics and their style. And I honestly think that everyone enjoyed it, truly.


LILAC: And it kind of just opened my mind into more creative, more authentic style of wedding planning.

DANIEL: Okay, all right. And from this first gig that you did, how long did it take you to acquire your first client? Official client.

LILAC: Official client who actually paid me?

DANIEL: Yes, that paid you.

LILAC: Actually paid me… Okay. I think I registered my business online straight away.

DANIEL: You did?

 LILAC: After the wedding in Thailand.


LILAC: I was like, “I’m going to do this,” right? And I’m like “I have no clients. I don’t have any job. What do I do?”

DANIEL: So you really quit your job?

LILAC: Yeah, I quit that job. I moved to Australia, shortly after that wedding.

DANIEL: I see.

LILAC: I started everything new. It feels like such a long time ago. And I put an ad up on Gumtree like every [inaudible 0:08:24.6] started business. I didn’t know anything about online marketing. I didn’t know what to do. I had no money for any magazine ads. So I was like, “Oh, Gumtree. That’s free.” That’s where people go to look for wedding planners, styling, and so I thought…

 DANIEL: You’d be surprised, they do.

LILAC: Yes. And one girl actually got back to me and I still remember her name. Her name is Teresa and she reached out to me to plan her mother’s 60th birthday.


LILAC: And it was in a, you know, small, shitty Orso club function room.


LILAC: Just the dream of every wedding stylist.

DANIEL: Oh, yeah. Mate, Orso’s the best.

LILAC: It’s the best. You know, all these patterned carpets.

DANIEL: Did it have a buffet?

LILAC: Oh, did it have a buffet? The food looks good. There was nuggets, wedges, and ring leaves.

DANIEL: I won’t ask what that is.

LILAC: Yeah, you do. No, trust me, you don’t want to. Yeah. So she paid me, she told me at the time her budget’s $250 and that [inaudible 0:09:28.4].

DANIEL: Big score.

LILAC: Big score! Like “Wow!”

DANIEL: You can buy a house right now.

LILAC: Totally.

DANIEL: Put down that deposit.

LILAC: I was very excited. Obviously, I still feel very honored that she trusted me who’s got actually zero experience, zero portfolio. And I used those $200 wisely and I definitely lost money on that, and did not pay for myself at all. But that’s my humble start.

DANIEL: I’m exactly the same. I didn’t use Gumtree though.

LILAC: What did you use?

DANIEL: I wasn’t… I didn’t put up an ad per se. I was just in these Flickr forums back then.

 LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: Back when Yahoo owned it or whatever. I don’t know who owns it now.

LILAC: Wow, Yahoo.

DANIEL: Yeah. It’s a community for photographers and I use that loosely. Just people who take photos and post them online. And there was this particular group and there was this guy saying he’s getting married in like maybe six months’ time and they had like a tiny budget. And I didn’t have…

LILAC: Have you shot any weddings at the time?

DANIEL: I did like I had helped someone else, my mentor.

LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: I kind of followed him and I learned the ropes a bit.

LILAC: [inaudible 0:10:34.3]

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. But I had never taken on it for myself. And I said yes and I was very excited, and I think I charged $450.

LILAC: Wooh!

DANIEL: And it was like 14-hour day. And I had at least – I think I had two other people with me.

LILAC: Did you to pay for these two people?

DANIEL: Ye, I paid for them. Not much, but I still paid them, I think.

LILAC: You know, these two people, call if you haven’t got paid. You know, X years later.

DANIEL: And I still remember that. It was crazy, but we had a lot of fun.

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: And I knew after that, I was hooked.

LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: Because there was something… I didn’t know what it was, but I enjoyed it.

LILAC: Awesome.

DANIEL: But what was the second client like and how did you acquire them?

LILAC: Oh, second client. They were actually referred to me by another friend of mine. At the start of my business, I was telling the world about it. The world, meaning, you know, all my family and friends. So I told him my good friend and she said, “Oh, hey, one of my colleagues is getting married.” And she organized a coffee chat between us and we met, we talked. She seemed to like me and she booked me straight away.


LILAC: Yeah. But their wedding wasn’t until, I think, it was nearly a year later. So my very, very official wedding was actually more than a year after I started my business.

DANIEL: Okay. And what were you doing like in between this to grow your business, build up that brand awareness?

LILAC: I was making mistakes.

DANIEL: Of course.

LILAC: Yeah. Lots of trials and errors, did not know what to do. Would listen to a hell of podcast, YouTube channels. Basically anything that’s free online. I was learning. I was absorbing and just trying to learn from this massive sea of knowledge. And starting my website, of course, I didn’t know what to do. You know, I said, “Listen, no…” you do a million things because you can’t afford to outsource to anyone else at the time.

DANIEL: Wear all the hats.

LILAC: Yes. You know, doing your taxes, social media.

DANIEL: Taxes, what’s tax?

LILAC: Yeah, well…

DANIEL: Oh, shit.

LILAC: Yeah. Well, that’s something new I learned today.

DANIEL: Okay. So let’s talk about our relationship in terms of SEO. But before we do, what was your understanding of search and organic traffic, and SEO in general as a business owner?

LILAC: No, not much at the time. I think when I engaged your service, which is about more than a year ago, I worked with another SEO agency at the time for, I think, nearly a year. But before that, I did not have a clue. I do not know what SEO was. I had to Google SEO stand for at the time. I knew it was something about Google, how to get your ranking up on Google.

DANIEL: Right.

LILAC: It was organic. You don’t have to pay for ads if you do a good job with SEO, you have to do a lot of, I think, backstage work on your website?

DANIEL: Right.

LILAC: You have to get blog links. That’s pretty much about it.

DANIEL: Okay. So what compelled you to actually pay for that service?

LILAC: Honestly, I think I was desperate. I was trying to reach out to a bigger community to get my name out there, and family and friends arejust not enough anymore. And I’ve always been a firm believer in letting the expert do their job. I can’t do it all. Ultimately, as a business owner, you should be – or at least the way we start out business, we wanted to do what we love, what we’re passionate about, what we’re good at. And for me, that was styling and planning events and weddings. You know, I didn’t start my business to do SEO…

DANIEL: Oh, god, no.

LILAC: Social media and all of that stuff. So I decided, since I didn’t know anything about it, why don’t I find someone who does?


LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: Alright.

LILAC: And then I thought that business and they did an okay job, I guess.

DANIEL: They did something.

LILAC: They did something. They didn’t ruin my website.


LILAC: That’s a way. And then I found you.

DANIEL: Then you found me. Actually, I don’t even remember. How did that conversation come about? I don’t remember.

LILAC: You didn’t have this job at the time.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. I know it was like October-ish of 2018?

LILAC: I think you’ve always been a digital nerd.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah.

LILAC: Like in my head, I know if I had any digital online questions, whatever it might be, your one of my first people to ask about it.

DANIEL: I see, I see.

LILAC: I think I was probably complaining to you about how I felt SEO is not working for me.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah.

LILAC: And at the time I remember we had this some Facebook group for wedding mentors.

DANIEL: Oh, right.

LILAC: And you were posting blogs about how to optimize a website, do this and that. I was like, “Wow. This guy knows a lot.”

DANIEL: Or does he?

LILAC: Oh, does he? That’s the real question. So I reached out, asked questions and stuff like that.


LILAC: I think that you were interested in online business apart from wedding photography.


LILAC: And then I think we just decided to give it a go. Yeah.

DANIEL: I see. I see.

LILAC: And you’ve come a long way as well.

DANIEL: I sure have. What was the initial experience as a client? And this is fully unscripted.

LILAC: Right. For real?

DANIEL: This will not be censored.

LILAC: This will not be censored. There’ll be just like music playing over this.

DANIEL: Yeah! Because it took… Because I know you’ve paid an agency in the past…


DANIEL: And so you were used to spending that money.


DANIEL: But even at the peak of my business, Angus Porter or whatever it was called back then, I don’t think… I may have been able to afford it financially, but mentally I would have never been okay with spending $1,000 per month because that as a significant outlay for a small business owner.

LILAC: Absolutely. Yeah.

DANIEL: And so that’s why I have huge respect for you because you were willing to do that. I don’t even know what my question is. I think that you can recover from this.

LILAC: I think you asked me why did I decide to spend so much money at the start of my business.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah.

LILAC: I just knew that whatever I was doing at the time just wasn’t enough. If I want to keep growing my business and get my name out there, I need to do something. And in this digital age it has to be online. And I was doing, I guess, okay on social media. Still growing, but I feel like my ranking on Google was just not high enough and that’s where I want a lot of my clients to come from.

DANIEL: Right.

LILAC: And I think to myself, “What should I do to make it grow and make that direction better?” And I knew it was going to be a substantial financial investment for me, but I just believed that was something needed to be done for me to grow. You can’t live in this little bubble and think things are going to change without doing anything.

DANIEL: True, true.

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: Cool. And you mentioned the word ranking a few times.


DANIEL: What does that mean to you back then and has that kind of changed? Because I know in the SEO world we do talk about rankings a lot.

LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: But I know in our conversations though, I have tried to steer away from it, but it still is a critical factor of SEO. But what does it mean to you?

LILAC: I think at the time where I didn’t know anything about SEO, it was literally about getting your, I guess, website high up on ideally Page 1, if not Page 2 of Google when people search certain business or certain keywords. Yeah. And I know now there’s so much more, the specific keywords in target. It depends on what you target. The result will be different. And the platform that you use, whether it’s mobile phone or laptop, or iPad, will vary, and it’s also localized as well, depends on where you are, where you search. Yeah, there’s so much smaller and even now I feel like there’s still a lot I don’t know. That’s why let the expert like yourself do the job for me.

DANIEL: Oh, thanks for that. She was not paid to say that.

LILAC: Oh, was I?

DANIEL: Yeah, you did. I mean I remember having a conversation with you in the very early stages of ranking is a vanity metric in the beginning to show progress, but ultimately you as a business owner, you want conversions.


DANIEL: And for you, a conversion is, at the very least, a booking inquiry and ultimately financial transaction. Let’s talk through that education process. What was it like?

LILAC: I think I’ve always – because we were friends before this.


LILAC: I always feel like you’ve always been a very informative, educational, and technical guy. I’ve just always trusted you in what you’ve got to say. And I just knew that you know what you were doing and I think I’ve given you that trust to tell me what will work best for my business. So I told you my requirements, what I want to achieve and how I’m doing right now, and what I need from you in terms of communications and deliverables. And then we took it from there.

DANIEL: Okay. Let’s touch upon those things that you expected. Did we ever meet those targets?

LILAC: Honestly at the start, not so much. I think it was a learning curve for you as well because I was your very first SEO client.


LILAC: Especially given that I had a professional, relatively large SEO agency that I’ve worked with for a whole year, I kind of had certain expectations.

DANIEL: I see. Okay. Well, how did I fail?

LILAC: I think you lacked a bit of communication at the start. I had expectation to… There was no, I guess proper guidelines in place. I knew kind of what you’re going to provide and I think you knew what I was kind of after, and you know, we had a contract in place. We had set an amount that we want to spend on SEO and stuff like that, but it was nothing overly specific. There was no real, I guess, work of scope, what is to be delivered every single month.

DANIEL: Right, right.

LILAC: And I had expectation having worked with another agency before. But I think quickly because of our communication style, which we’re both very straight forward, so I think after a few months of kind of trial and error, I basically told you, “Hey, I think you’re doing great work, but what I need from you is a bit more communication. Let’s set up a regular monthly call and then let’s talk about stuff. Have a proper agenda, let’s go through what we’ve achieved in the months and what we wanting to achieve in the coming months.”


LILAC: So from there we’ve definitely grown, the both of us, and it’s been a very pleasant experience so far.

DANIEL: Very good. Yeah, because I remember the initial months and…

LILAC: How did you feel at the time?

DANIEL: The initial months where – I think I spent most of that time doing analysis. And so when it comes to deliverables, I didn’t even know how to communicate that because it was just me looking at your competitors, looking at the SERPs and going, “What is going on? What are the keywords here? How can we affect change for you so that you could score initially?”

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: And so yeah, I’d fully acknowledge and admit that I wasn’t very open about what I was doing, partly because I didn’t really know either. I was still trying to sort out that strategy. And because you were my first client, I didn’t have that framework. I was just pretty much making it up as I was going along.

LILAC: Yeah, I was a lab rat. I’m thrilled to be that lab rat.

DANIEL: Yeah. And I remember you pretty much just told me, I think you preferred to… I don’t know exactly what you said, but you said you would prefer better communication transparency of what I was doing.

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: Once again, it goes back to you are investing a significant amount per month and you do want to see that work is being done.


DANIEL: And it wasn’t so much maybe… I think I was afraid of prescribing deliverables because I didn’t really know if they were applicable for you.

LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: But I definitely have learned that I do need to communicate, a, what I’m working on and, b, why, and then ask for your feedback if it is something that you want to pursue.

LILAC: Yeah, absolutely. I feel as a client in terms of these kind of technical work, most of us don’t really know what you’re doing, especially what happens at the backend of things.


LILAC: And without that communication, it kind of undermines the value that you’re providing. And there’s something, I feel like a lot of the the SEO clients will expect to receive, to better understand the work you’re doing and the achievement you made each every single months.

DANIEL: Yeah. And in terms of the SEO strategy itself, when did you get a bit of picture of what we were doing and why?

LILAC: I think it was at the time you were suggesting to work out the content of my website and do more blog posts, and I didn’t know what to do at the time at all. I just had what I felt was a beautifully designed website was amazing images, and there was no real educational information at the time. And you actually educate me to how educate my audience and provide value-added information so they see you as the authority in the industry. And this is something I learned from you and I’m very grateful – to keep working on content that my audience want to read and they could benefit from. So since then you’ve suggested to add on blog post, for example, to teach guys how to propose, having proposal design as well. And we talk about different styling recommendations, relevant styling recommendations for different venues that I love working at, and you work on the backend of things to optimize my website, my URL slug and different page titles and texts. And I’ve definitely seen a dramatic increase in the overall quality of my website, as well as, my ranking.

DANIEL: Okay. But in terms of conversions…


DANIEL: How has that been over the past? Oh, it’s been probably 14 months?

LILAC: The way I look at conversions, as much as you can as a SEO expert, to drive traffic to my website, it is still up to my website’s content and my ability to captivate audience, for them to like my work enough to leave an inquiry or aka fill out an inquiry form on my website. And from the analytics I’ve seen the traffic has significantly increased to go to my website. My inquiry, my leads had definitely gone up.

DANIEL: How about the quality of these leads?

LILAC: It varies, to be honest. We’ve worked a lot on my proposal package for guys proposing to girlfriends, and I’ve definitely seen a lot of increase in that leads, as well. But I do feel that organic traffic from Google can really vary in terms of quality, budget, and style, and as business owners, we have to work our content, to grab the attention of the audience to like us enough to give us a call, and leave their email address. So it’s up to us to convert further.

DANIEL: True. I mean, all an SEO really does is bring you traffic.


DANIEL: [inaudible 0:26:49.3] it’s relevant traffic, how that user responds is ultimately up to your offer and how you can close them. But at the very superficial level, yeah, it’s increasing, a, your visibility through all those technical little modifications and then, b, something. I’m a real pro at this.

LILAC: Oh, absolutely.

DANIEL: My mind is everywhere right now. Should we edit this now or just keep it in?

LILAC: Oh, this is definitely authentic.

DANIEL: This is #realtalk right now.

LILAC: #realtalk #awkwardsilence.

DANIEL: Very awkward. Maybe walk through your experience of SEO and marketing in general and how that has changed over time and how you will probably focus on it in the coming years.

LILAC: When I first invested in SEO and still up to this moment, I think SEO was my biggest and very first investment in marketing for business.

DANIEL: Yeah, it’s like 12K a year, minimum.

LILAC: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a lot of money and it’s still a lot of money.


LILAC: I think that we had a conversation actually a few days ago about how my website is doing well. Organic traffic is coming steadily and you actually brought up to pause SEO work temporarily for me to reinvest some budget into something else.

DANIEL: How did you feel about that?

LILAC: I loved it.


LILAC: Loved it. That goes back to the trust that I had for you. I feel like unlike other SEO experts, you do really give a damn about your client’s business. You care about us. You want us to grow and achieve what we set out to achieve, and you suggest that maybe I should invest in something else that will be bringing in more authoritative backlinks. So I’m actually looking into advertising with certain bridal magazines and online blocks. And then, as you believe, SEO is a longterm game, it’s an ongoing work.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah.

LILAC: And I’ll definitely come back in a few months and look at what other work we can do to optimize my website. But meanwhile my focus is going to be navigate towards more other online presences. For example, Instagram sponsor ads, directories, and you know, networking with our clients and then those as well.

DANIEL: Yeah. I mean going back to why I suggested that we do stop work for SEO, it was because I feel as though – and it’s something that I learned in the initial keyword research phase for your project, was not many people were searching for wedding styling related keywords.

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: And over the past 14 months – well, actually probably six months, we already saturated the rankings for most of them. I can’t get you to the number one position, but you’re going be at the top three for most of them.

LILAC: And that’s awesome.

DANIEL: Whether that’s for wedding styling Sydney, or wedding styling, or marriage proposal related stuff. I can only bring in the eyeballs that exist and I feel as though the organic channel from that perspective is probably not worthwhile investing more money into. Like we could do more, it would cost a lot more time and money. But would it still yield an exponential return? Maybe not. And that’s why I advocated for why don’t you go build a relationship with directories, the big names in the wedding industry. So essentially you pay the money, you build a relationship, then you can ask for favors later on.

LILAC: Right.

DANIEL: And that’s always going to be probably be stronger than bringing in complete randoms who don’t know what you are. Just because you rank there doesn’t mean that they are a good fit for you.

LILAC: Yeah.

DANIEL: And I feel if you are working, whether you’re collaborating with the right brands and leveraging their audience and their branding, that’s going to benefit you in the long term and short term.

LILAC: Yeah. And to add on what Danny just said, I know when we first started you said that – because my focus is navigating towards wedding events styling and planning, and they were a lot of people searching for wedding planner and not wedding stylist.


LILAC: It’s because styling is kind of a no man’s land.

DANIEL: Is that an afterthought?

LILAC: Yes, absolutely.

DANIEL: It’s either all in or DIY.

LILAC: Exactly. And a lot of people don’t even know what wedding stylist do.

DANIEL: What do you guys do?

LILAC: Yeah. I have nothing, sit on a couch and talk on podcasts, essentially.

DANIEL: Like you guys, you bring in furniture or you hire lounges?

LILAC: Yeah, well. You know, if you want to know a bit more about what wedding stylists do, you can go on our website and read about, you know, the content.

DANIEL: But essentially for me, I understood what the role of a wedding stylist is. It’s essentially project management.

LILAC: More creative.

DANIEL: It’s still like wedding planning. Yeah, but creative.

LILAC: More creative. We basically work on the visual aspect of your weddings. Whatever you see, flowers, stationary, furniture, signage that we put together and design the concept and the visual elements of your wedding day.


LILAC: Okay. Still don’t know what that means, I guess, from that puzzled look on your face

DANIEL: I’m always puzzled.

LILAC: But anyway, I feel like this is something that slowly it will grow. People will get to know what wedding stylists do and…

DANIEL: It’s not a mature industry.

LILAC: It’s not mature industry, which is a good thing cause we were the one who first started doing it and slowly, once people kind of gained the knowledge and information about the niche, you have a wedding stylist or the SEO work done in the past, would pay back in the long run, as well.

 DANIEL: And because SEO is a zero sum game, we do need to revisit it in six months’ time.


DANIEL: Because your competitor will probably on it.

LILAC: Outrank me, yeah.

DANIEL: And then if we start seeing them moving up, then that’s a sign that we need to deploy certain resources, investigate what type of content people are looking for and…

LILAC: Yes. And it’s always changing.

DANIEL: Yeah. Okay. Well, I appreciate your candidness.

LILAC: Oh, thank you.

DANIEL: It’s been an interesting journey with you and thank you for being my first SEO client.

LILAC: Thank you for letting me.

DANIEL: It’s been an educational process. And I’m pretty sure I have gotten the results that we talked about, I think?

LILAC: That’s a hell of confidence.

DANIEL: Yeah, I’m good. I’m grateful because, again, as a business owner myself, thinking every month a $1,000 and more, it’s scary because you don’t know when you’re getting paid next.

LILAC: Exactly.

DANIEL: But yet you are paying someone else.

LILAC: Well, I sold my apartment so I can pay you. Not really.

DANIEL: This is awkward.

LILAC: I firmly believe you need to invest to get things in return.


LILAC: Yeah, you have to keep moving, keep evolving the business to grow.


LILAC: You can’t just sit on your butt and expect something good is going to happen to you

DANIEL: That’s it. You got to go and get it.

LILAC: Exactly. Go and get it, people.

DANIEL: So what are you excited about for this year?

LILAC: I’m really excited about all the amazing clients that I’ve brought in and my focus is to work on fewer weddings each year and produce better work.

DANIEL: For yourself, because it’s fulfilling.

LILAC: Absolutely.

DANIEL: And then if you love it, you will do better for your clients.

LILAC: Absolutely. I want the business to be profitable. I want me to produce great work that’s inspiring and that’s creative and that changed the industry. I’ve got a big goal for my brand and I’m excited to work on these exciting weddings and projects that’ll come and I’ve got clients who understand my brands and have full faith in me to create what I feel is the best fit for them, and that’s really rewarding.

DANIEL: Fantastic. All the best.

LILAC: Thank you so much.

DANIEL: And we’ll be in touch.

LILAC: Don’t call me.

DANIEL: Yeah, lose my number.

LILAC: I just changed it.

DANIEL: Cool. Well thank you very much, Lilac.

Find Out More About Lilac

Lilac is the founder of Upside Down Events. She specialises in event planning and design – specifically weddings and surprise marriage proposals.

You may follow her work on Instagram.

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